In a dilema about a brandable name

chriscolenso · May 9, 2015

Hell everyone, i wonder of i could seek your educated advice? About a year and a half ago i created a highly brandable .com domain name, very specific to the web hosting business and one that had never been created before (according to domain tools and wayback machine).
I had intended setting up a hosting business, but illness caused me to put everything on hold.
Almost a year later, I was able to start focusing on the business again, and registered the same name under .uk, then noticed the .com was nearing expiry, so made a mental note to renew at next opportunity.
My mental note was a litle off and I lost the .com, it was sold off almost as soon as it expired and is now listed for sale at around £500.00.
Intending to keep the name for the business, I set up a ltd company with that name and have also registered it with other extensions such as .info and .space, and plan to expand on that as finance allows.
But the question is what does this do to the value of the .com?
The name is so specific that it can only really be used for the web hosting business and if i own as many other extensions as possible does this make it more or less likely that the .com will decrease in value?
I would like to get the name back but I'm not paying through the nose for a name that i created if you see what i mean.
Your thoughtful advice would be much appreciated.

Beezy · May 9, 2015

chriscolenso said:
The name is so specific that it can only really be used for the web hosting business and if i own as many other extensions as possible does this make it more or less likely that the .com will decrease in value?
I would like to get the name back but I'm not paying through the nose for a name that i created if you see what i mean.
Your thoughtful advice would be much appreciated.

Registering all of the other extensions will probably increase the value of the .com and I DON'T see what you mean.

Buy it or don't. Make a decision and move on.

chriscolenso · May 9, 2015

Gosh that is so rude, are you always so welcoming? I don't think I'll be using this forum anymore.
Oh and learn some manners your attitude makes you sound like a pig.

Grego85 · May 9, 2015

you lost the .com, therefore you should discontinue trying to build around that name.

Jason.tv · May 9, 2015

I have done this before; I had to pay the $500 to get it back

cocaseco · May 9, 2015

Registering the other domains and associated activities will increase the value of the dot com. In fact i would be worried about the current owner essentially extorting you for it. You will make it very clear you want it bad once he knows you want it, guess what happens? The price will go up and he can wait forever knowing you want it. If you do register any other domains I would make sure they were private at a minimum. I would not publicly say anything about them on any forum.

As for the rudeness, you will get used to it from some people here. Like everything in life, try to focus on those with a positive, encouraging and open mind and you will find value here. But if you do decide to quit, just do it, don't state it, nobody really needs to know.

enlytend · May 9, 2015

You're in England? Forget .space, .info - they're garbage. Register it in the co.uk if available. If not available your only likely recourse is to buy one or the other from the current registrant. Do you have a trademark registered on the name? If so, a lawyer might be able to make a case that the name is being used in bad faith. But if there's no mark and you have yet to use it in commerce ...

chriscolenso · May 9, 2015

Thanks for your responses everyone, especially coreseco, your words changed my mind. I know there is rudeness on all forums, and i expect it if i'm a regular becuase people know a little about me and are entitled to some degree to like or dislike me, but as a first response it's quite shocking.
Thanks Enlyted, i will register the co.uk. I don't intend on giving up my company name, and do intend to register it as trademark, which will probably not be very helpful at this stage, but as the .com is currently parked, it may discourage others from buying it. Don't know.
I think on reflection that there's not much i can do about it and should carry on regardless. I'm certainly not paying through the nose just for a .com.
Incidently, the .space actually fits in well with the domain name, which is why i registered it.
Thanks everyone else, it was nice to get some decent responses.

ulterios · May 9, 2015

One thing that you need to consider:

If your business takes off and does well and later you decide that you want the .com and it's registered by someone else, it will then cost you even more.

If someone who owns a domain see the demand going up and knows that you want it for brand recognition, they are likely to want much more then they do now. Since they will own the best and most desirable extension (.com) that one will be worth more to you so they will want more for it.

If at all possible for a business venture online you will always want to get the .com.

The cc domains like your .uk are best if what you are selling is targeted to a specific region or country. Since you are hosting related I assume that you are thinking global which is why the .com would be best (among other reasons).

You might be able to haggle with the new owner and get him to lower his price. If you are wanting to stick with the name you have then I would try to work something out for the .com.

It will definitely be cheaper to just come up with a new name and reg the .com and any others you feel you need.

You might be able to get it with a UDRP later, but that is not guaranteed, especially if the name is being used for something different than what you are using your for.

DU · May 9, 2015

"listed for sale at around £500.00"

That shouldn't put off buying it if you're looking to brand and TM the term. You only need the CO.UK and .COM in reality the rest of the names are just sucking money. Why don't you buy it, lesson learned?
OR
Come up with a new name

@Beezy was really spot on with his advice. Either buy it or don't - they are the only two options and 500 is not paying through the nose =)

Grego85 · May 9, 2015

if you do end up buying the .com back, definitely keep that .space too! .space right now seems worthless sure, but isn't it interesting how the 5 letter word "space" seems to relate a whole lot better to your name than the 3 letter word "com"?

nothing stays the same, it's the one fact you can always bank on.

.com is king now, but maybe relevancy at some point becomes more important than initial familiarity, as well it should.

PuSin · May 9, 2015

Registering other extensions will increase the value of .com imo.
You can try to contact the present owner and try to purchase it in lesser price.
That would be dependent on your negotiation skills.
If you are really very serious about the brand name, I suggest that you try to buy it.
We never know if the name sells, and may be the next owner wants to develop it, and the name is not available for sale even at a higher price then...
The last strategy can be coming up with a new good name...

Kate · May 9, 2015

If you are a business, you should be able to spend £500.00. It's a business expense for tax purposes.
I would do that quick before somebody else gets it, or the price increases. You might regret it down the road. I know you resent it, but we've been through this before.
I dropped a few good names in the early days, and I bought them back years later. Today I am happy that I fixed my blunders of the past.

I also procrastinated while I had a change to buy great domains and I still regret it to this day... they may be gone forever. It's your branding that is at stake here and we're talking about the .com. We are not talking about some future project you are contemplating, it is a name that you already using... This is very serious.
You never know, the scope of your business could quickly exceed the UK and not having the .com could be more of an inconvenience as you grow.

Other option: rebrand your business now and choose another name. Make sure you have the .com plus a few defensive regs. But rebranding comes at a cost too. In my view this is a no-brainer. Get that domain. You can try to negotiate the price too.

Maxwell · May 9, 2015

Beezy said:
Registering all of the other extensions will probably increase the value of the .com and I DON'T see what you mean.

Buy it or don't. Make a decision and move on.

Beezy is right though, if a certain term is taken in a lot of extensions then yeah the .com's value will probably increase since there is clearly some demand for the term - and every other extension is just a "runner-up" to .com.

It's actually a sale point sometimes to mention that your domain is registered in many other extensions...

TimCulpepper · May 9, 2015

Ask yourself this, "If I had not bought this domain myself, then lost it... and I stumbled upon this name for the first time in the marketplace... a GREAT domain name, PERFECT for my business, and it only costs £500.00, would I buy that name?"

If 'yes', then you need to buy the name back. If 'no', then don't.

Name Trader · May 9, 2015

I'd go pay that $500 right now to get your name back. Buy it now before somebody else does. This is urgent, imho. You are lucky it's not much higher. If you don't have the funds right now, I'd go into debt to buy my domain back. You could always try to negotiate with the seller without telling them this story, of course.

awei · May 24, 2015

with all due respect, sir
it was you beening rude by saying "I'm not paying through the nose for a name that i created"
you didnt care it enough
that domainer spent his time and took a risk, £500 sounds not much
and you didnt even care enough to come back to this post and thank these people who spent their time giving you advice
call me rude as you may, but if you dont respect what we do, why expect what you dont deserve.

UltraNames.com · May 24, 2015

500£ is a reasonable price. If i owned it you would be in a much worse situation trust me...

Cal2 · May 24, 2015

chriscolenso said:
Your thoughtful advice would be much appreciated.

For the sale price it's listed at, before I'd spend any more money on things like incorporating, I'd spend it on getting the .com. If your business idea proves to work out, then owning the .com would be an investment, not an expense, which should give a good return in a # of ways.

chriscolenso · May 22, 2016

awei said:
with all due respect, sir
it was you beening rude by saying "I'm not paying through the nose for a name that i created"
you didnt care it enough
that domainer spent his time and took a risk, £500 sounds not much
and you didnt even care enough to come back to this post and thank these people who spent their time giving you advice
call me rude as you may, but if you dont respect what we do, why expect what you dont deserve.

Awei, but I did thank everyone, please look again, it's up there.

chriscolenso · May 22, 2016

Hello everyone, It's a year later and I thought I'd update everyone. First of all thanks for all of your replies, and also apologies to the first responder, I think on reflection I took offence in haste, sometimes the written word can be misunderstood regarding tone.
The way I'd seen it back then, rightly or wrongly, was that as the domain name was so specific and was a good brand name, it would only ever be useful to me. The owner would have to either park it or come up with another use for it's name, not related to the business it describes. Then s/he'd have to keep renewing for as long as I refused to purchase it.
I guessed that anyone else trading under my company name might be liable to prosecution.
I'd discovered two things about the owner, s/he owned quite a few parked domains, and they were UK based, so having the LTD in the UK certainly would be a problem for them if they wanted to use it for themselves or sell within the UK.
The domain name halved in price 4 weeks after my original post, and expired a few weeks ago. I now have the .com back, and at a special offer price of £1.00!
I have been trading under another name, in the same business so it wasn#t too much of a problem if I lost it completely, but glad to have it back now.
Thanks again to all who answered, maybe my actions helped me, maybe not, I guess I'll never know. The purchaser may not have been as experienced or wise as some of you here, or maybe he just decided to relent!

TimCulpepper · May 22, 2016

Congratulations on getting your name. And thanks for the update.

Now that the name is securely in your possession, can you tell us what the name is? Just curious...

chriscolenso · May 22, 2016

Domain.BUZZ said:
Congratulations on getting your name. And thanks for the update.

Now that the name is securely in your possession, can you tell us what the name is? Just curious...

Hi, yes it's Hostquota.com

svede · May 26, 2016

chriscolenso said:
Hello everyone, It's a year later and I thought I'd update everyone. First of all thanks for all of your replies, and also apologies to the first responder, I think on reflection I took offence in haste, sometimes the written word can be misunderstood regarding tone.
The way I'd seen it back then, rightly or wrongly, was that as the domain name was so specific and was a good brand name, it would only ever be useful to me. The owner would have to either park it or come up with another use for it's name, not related to the business it describes. Then s/he'd have to keep renewing for as long as I refused to purchase it.
I guessed that anyone else trading under my company name might be liable to prosecution.
I'd discovered two things about the owner, s/he owned quite a few parked domains, and they were UK based, so having the LTD in the UK certainly would be a problem for them if they wanted to use it for themselves or sell within the UK.
The domain name halved in price 4 weeks after my original post, and expired a few weeks ago. I now have the .com back, and at a special offer price of £1.00!
I have been trading under another name, in the same business so it wasn#t too much of a problem if I lost it completely, but glad to have it back now.
Thanks again to all who answered, maybe my actions helped me, maybe not, I guess I'll never know. The purchaser may not have been as experienced or wise as some of you here, or maybe he just decided to relent!

Congratulations!

BTW, just remember that if they registered the domain BEFORE you get your TM, they are not in any legal trouble (unless they approach you to sell it since that becomes bad faith in a UDRP). It does make it more unlikely for them to get other buyers, but it doesn't make them sell it (in fact it could make them hold onto it and WAIT for you to start negotiations - in which case they wouldn't have any issue with bad faith). To try to create a TM of a pre-existing registration (regardless of your past intents) and to start a UDRP to claim a domain is called reverse domain name hijacking and if found guilty of it, you can actually end up in legal issues.

Fortunately, you got your domain and there is no issue, but just for your knowledge.

Congrats again and I wish you the best!

Name Trader · May 26, 2016

chriscolenso said:
I have been trading under another name, in the same business so it wasn#t too much of a problem if I lost it completely

Congrats. You now have a perfect storm. .com, .co.uk, ltd co, all with the same name. Go for it.

But one thing you forgot to mention in your first post, I quoted above. So the course of action you took was not an option for us to recommend. And just for the record, paying GBP500 for a domain which was essential to your vision, strategy and branding, is cheap. I would far from call it "paying thru the nose for a .com". I would have suspected you would have much the same advice, even if we had known that fact.

You tossed the dice and won. There are six sides to a dice. So the odds were against you. Please come back in another year and tell us how your hosting company is doing.

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